is this fair?

[anine]

scenario: yard owner agrees and stipulates in contract with clients the type and +- amount of feed each horse gets.

The horses do not do well on this food (brand A) and clients request brand B (that costs marginally LESS than brand A)

today yard owner tells clients that the yard is only willing to pay Rx.xx/kg for each horse and only the kg amount that each owner specified in their original contract.

everything above Rx.xx is for the client's account.

is this fair???

Surely the yard is responsible for feeding the horse enough so that he's looking well covered? The current eragrostis they're feeding is pathetic looking and most of the horses have lost weight.

[misty]

A YO has to draw the line somewhere and cannot be expected to pay for more expensive feed, so yes it is fair for the client to then be charged extra. Afterall if 10 horses need more expensive feed at say R50 per month, that adds up to an extra R500! If the client does not carry the extra cost, it could mean the rest of the horses may suffer when their feed is cut to accommodate this extra cost.

Regarding the eragrostis - there are definite issues at the moment with all baled feeds being below standard most of the time - it is the time of the year unforunately and generally you cant blame the YO if said YO is trying their best to get the best quality available. If this is a year-round issue I wouldnt be happy, but honestly it is very difficult to always only get the best.

As always there are a number of sides to every scenario and it would need more carefull analysing to say whether any YO is behaving in an unfair manner.

[Rox]

The feeding cost in a livery fee is usually worked on an average of how much horses will eat a day. This usually balances itself out with good doers versus horses that require slightly more food. That said, if a horse is requiring a large amount of feed a day (over 8kgs a day for example) to keep well covered, then I would think it's only fair for the owner to pay in extra.

I have also been at yards where if a client wants to use a seperate feed to the rest of the yard, they are usually charged extra. But in this case where brand B is cheaper than brand A, I think he is being unfair to charge extra.

However - What transport costs are involved to get brand B? Is the yard owner having to do extra trips to get the feed?

This could also be why he is charging extra

[bluebells]

Move yards, you cannot expect a yard owner to change feed, at least in my experience it just leads to major issues. They feed what they feed and that is it and like mentioned if everyone decides what they want to feed it really disrupts the entire business.

My other issue though – how on earth can you have a contract that stipulates the AMOUNT of food a horse will get, that is one of the most ridiculous things I have heard of in my life.

[brightbay]

Merry, understood about horses that needs huge amount of feed. At this yard however, all the horses are on around 4kgs of feed. Another kg per horse (which is only needed because the owner didn't plan for winter, and now can't find anything but the worst possible quality of grass) will thus be less than a bag of feed/month - around R120.

[arte]

We run our own yard, And cont charge much for livery, SO it our case we will charge more...
Like now, We ere unhappy with our food company, So we will get from another feed company, If livery clients don’t want to pay more, we will still feed their horses the old food...They will have to deal with the vet bills...

[isla]

Bluebells ~ its easy! The contract does not stipulate X amount but rather has a rough guide. Its not uncommon.

[bluebells]

I have obviously been living in a happy oblivion then. I just cannot phantom it.

What happens when you start working the horse much harder than it was working?

[Rox]

Brightbay, I understand where you are coming from, but it's tricky. You are saying it's about R120 extra a month so the YO should pay and the then the YO will say that since it's only R120 extra a month, the owner should pay. It's one of those catch 22 situations.

Has the owner tried to meet the YO half way with the costs? I think both parties should try to come to an agreeable middle point. This is just my opinion.

Having worked at a large yard (80+ horses), an extra kg a day to a couple of horses actually adds up to a large amount of money at the end of the month. Also if something gets done for one client, why shouldn't it be done for others? It can end up in disaster if not managed correctly.

[hollie]

What if you buy your own food, and deduct it from the livery. I know one of our liveries did this and it wasn't a problem, she just had her own bin and it was up to her what she wanted to feed.

But is suppose we are only a small yard (max 15 horses) so in a big yard maybe this wouldn't work so well.

[isla]

Hollie ~ brilliant! Its just what I was thinking. Then the cost is my problem and not theirs:)

In this instance I think its more the manner in which it was done that irks me. This should have been raised when the food was initially changed and not some months down the line.

[brightbay]

OK, let me just explain better. When the current livery horses were moved over to this yard (who, at that stage had no other liveries) feed A was agreed on. So all the horses, plus the owner's own horse was put on feed A.

This feed didn't work out (like we said, horses lost condition, some had diarhea - incl the owner's horse), so all the horses were switched to feed B. The YO decided to switch her own horse to feed C, which she had it on before witch is cheaper than B (but that horse is an occasional hack, all the liveries are competition horses, so horses would most likely need a substantial amount of feed more, if they were all on feed C).

Now all the horses are fed on B (except the YO's horse) and doing really great. Then all of a sudden the quality of grass turns abysmal, which is agrivated by the grass being stored out in the open. One of the liveries suddenly start losing condition (despite being healthy, dewormed etc otherwise), and owner of the livery horse asks for 1kg food/day more, only until grass quality is better.

So all the liveries get a letter that there is a 10c/kg difference in feed price between feed A and feed B, so that will be invoiced from now on (despite that the feed was changed 2 months ago) and anyone wanting to feed their horse more, will thus be charged accordingly.

I find this a bit hard to swallow, as most of the horses have been on extra lucern (bought by the owners at +- R200/horse/month) and other supplements to keep them on condition to make up for the horrid grass anyway.

[Rox]

Brightbay, how many liveries are there? Maybe it would be more cost effective for the liveries to get together and buy their own feed. Then as per hollie's suggestion, get this reducted from the livery fee.

It's not really fair that she is not storing the grass correctly. How will you manage in summer with the wet weather? Mouldy/wet grass is even worse for the horses

[brightbay]

6 liveries, plus her own 1 horse

That's half our point - if good quality grass was available, I'm confident we could have cut down significantly on hard feed.

[laura]

In this case i think the YO is being rather spitefull. I also run my own little yard the livery pays a basic stabling cost (a set price) and the feed is up to her to pay for, any supplements, feed roughage etc is up to the livery to decide what etc. We have a say in how much as we dont want skeletal horses. This seems to be the best way of working things as different horses have so many different needs. If the quality of roughage is bad then the YO should be making a plan to find better roughage or substituting with more feed, in the end its creates a bad name for the yard to have skinny horses. In this case i think she/he is very wrong

[brigitte]

Change yards. This kind of nitpicking is only going to get worse. I spent three years begging and pleading for a feed review and increased liberty time. Never happened because it would've made things complicated for the YO. I guess she had the right to do things her own way. But instead of wasting all that time trying to change her whole system, I should've moved at the start and saved myself the frustration. We're now at a small, flexible yard with a hands-on owner who's fascinated by feed and only too delighted to look at diet optimisation. Happy horses, happy YO, happy me.

In a situation like this, it's hard to say who's being fair and who isn't...maybe nobody is. It's really a case of finding a YO with the same mindset as you. Bit like marriage really - sometimes the whips and spurs are the only fun part. ;p