Kelly Marks/Intelligent Horsemanship Xmas Tour '08

[zsuzsanna04]

Hi all,

Exciting news - Kelly & the IH team are coming back to SA !!

Due to overwhelming demand after last year's tour, Kelly & the team will be back in South Africa this December, demonstrating, educating and inspiring !

We are holding 3 demonstrations this year as follows:-

Sunday, 14 December - SA Jockey Academy, Summerveld, Durban
Tuesday, 16 December - SA Lipizzaner Centre, Kyalami, Joburg
Saturday, 20 December - Cape Indoor Riding Centre, Joostenbergvlakte

Kelly will once again be demonstrating the principles of Join-Up and Intelligent Horsemanship to help a variety of horses with problems.

Each demo will have a starter so that you can see Join-Up and first saddle, bridle and rider. Then Kelly will work with one or two 'problem' horses, finding 'intelligent' solutions for both horse and rider. Finally, we round off the demo with Kelly's favourite - tricky loaders.

Each demo is different, so whether you came to last year's demo and want to learn more, or are coming to see Kelly for the first time, there's something for everyone.

Also - if you have a horse that might need a bit of help, why not volunteer? All behaviour problems welcome! Can’t box, can’t ride, can’t shoe, can’t catch, can't clip, difficult to mount, or maybe you’ve just got a nice youngster for starting? Why not bring them along ? Every volunteer horse that gets chosen to come along will be given 2 free tickets as a thank you.

Please see our website, www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.za for more details.

[anine]

awesome zsu!
Guys, we went last year and it is WELL worth it. Kelly is an exceptional horsewoman and has such a beautiful quiet way about her, she's truely an inspiration.

[jane]

I went last year and was quite disturbed by some of her methods, I know a few people who walked out half way through because they thought it was terrible... just my opinion though...and not saying that she doesn't have some good methods.

[Simone]

I went last year and thought it was absolutely fantastic. Im thinking of volunteering one of my horses for the demo. The ride with your mind clinic is also awesome. I think kelly and monty's methods are just too new for some people to accept. Those people who left missed out on a brilliant demo.

[isla]

I agree IC! Twas an excellent demo and Kelly has a wonderful way with horses.

[misty]

Oh brilliant - anyone who found it terrible should look at some of the so-called natural methods being practised elsewhere - no way is it cruel or terrible. One needs to remember this is a demo - NOT a clinic to teach you to do it all - it introduces you to the ideas and methods and gives an indication of how they can work.
Kelly is the nicest, kindest person going - well worth the effort of attending and if you dont have her book "Perfect Confidence" I suggest getting it - it is an excellent book.

[Salinero]

Totally agree with Misty. Went to the CT demo last year and it was very good. People can learn from Kelly. There are too many people out there who think they practice natural horsemanship methods but who actually have no idea what its about and cause more harm to their horses. Kelly's methods are easy to learn and understand and I believe it will help people get a better understanding of their horses' behaviour.

[~Cadence~]

OOOO i want to go!

[anine]

jane: I'm actually quite curious now, what did you find disturbing?

We went to the joburg demo and not only were the stands packed but I saw nobody leave either.

[Simone]

ditto anine

I do know that a friend of mine who is into parelli walked out because she said the methods where cruel and unsafe?
i really just stood there with my jaw dropped as i could not believe what she was saying.

Remember that Parelli basically advocates that their methods are the ONLY methods and so their followers tend to be rather closed to the idea of something else that can also work.

***Im not saying all Parelli people are like this but there are a few who come across like this***

[Rox]

Some of the comments that came up with the demo done in Cpt were pretty negative (if you listened to the people standing around after the demo). The biggest concern that I heard raised was the saftey aspect of her methods. One of the horse she worked with could have seriously hurt someone less experienced and the concern raised was that Kelly was not stating it enough that this should only be done if you are an experienced horse handler. A lot of people walked out of there with the opinion "Gosh, what if my child tried that and got seriously hurt".

While I am smart enough to know my limitations and to know what I can and can't handle, there are some people (youngsters included) that watch and say "Oh, I can do that". While I thought the demo was fantastic and would definately watch it again, I agree with those people who stated that Kelly must state more often and more firmly "Don't try this at home, unless you are experienced"

[millies]

I am definitely booking my place to go and see Kelly this time around. She is a remarkable trainer of horses and the feedback from the JHB crowd last year was phenomenal.

Merry, I think people need to be realistic. One must surely remember that Kelly is a professional and that she will always have safety as her number one priority. One can learn a lot by watching professionals work without necessarily going home and trying your hand at the same thing. Just like a lot of people would prefer sending a youngster to a professional to be backed. It doesn't mean what the professional does to back the horse is dangerous, it simply means they know what they are doing. You are paying for their expertise so to speak.

[jane]

Merry that is what I was talking about. Some of the methods clearly worked very well. What I didn't like was the safety aspect, namely that wild, young horse she worked with could have seriously injured her and I honestly thought it was cruel to use that specific horse as he was terrified especially when the huge audience clapped. She should have used a horse a little less afraid for a demo with so many people. Also the horse box could have led to disaster, the ramp had nothing on the sides to stop that horse from slipping off and seriously injuring himself.
I did enjoy some of it but I really wasn't wowed. I'm not a parelli person either but I have seen the way they train them and I definitely prefer it.

[holly]

Interestingly, I read that Kelly is super-aware of safety as she had a very bad accident as a child - so you always but ALWAYS for example, see her handling horses with a hard hat on. She's fanatical about it. Also worth bearing in mind that she can only work with horses that are volunteered for the demo and these won't always be ideal. But she can give you a glimpse of effectivemethods to use to get a handle on your problems in a safe and kind way. I will definately be attending the Joburg demo!

[michy]

Fabulous to hear there is going to be another demo this year. I really learnt from last year's one, and the book I bought "Perfect Confidence".

A group of us were so excited to hear it was going to be in the Southern Suburbs this year (they didn't go last year because of the 80km round trip, but I just HAD to go) but sadly I see it's reverted to Joostenburgvlakte again so I think we will be missing it this year Hope it all goes really well!

[jane]

Just my opinion...

[zsuzsanna04]

So sorry Michy - we really wanted to go to SARDA this year, but for all sorts of logistical reasons, not least of which the weather, the CIRC is just the most practical option.

I know Stalin caused a lot of waves in Cape Town and if I may, I'd like to explain that Kelly used him specifically because he was so reactive and thought he would be interesting (which IMHO he was - it's very seldom that you find a horse THAT reactive). But perhaps I like the extreme cases because one so rarely gets a chance to see them and I find it interesting to watch the problem solving process. For the spooky mare we had in Jo'burg, it was enough just to mask the sound of the clippers with the music. In Stalin's case, the music simply wasn't going to be enough. To begin with, Kelly couldn't even get the bag on the stick near him, so she started off by showing him it was ok by letting him 'chase' it away (a predator never runs away from its prey). Once he'd worked out the bag was ok and wasn't going to eat him, she then worked on getting him to allow it on his body. Then Rosie came in and they worked on both touching him with their spooky bags at the same time. Then Kelly substituted her stick for the clippers, but got Rosie to distract him by continuing to touch him with the plastic bag while she touched him with the clippers.

Perhaps the process just wasn't obvious enough.

It's a shame because it's precisely the horses that make her think and come up with Plan B (and sometimes C and D) which are the most fascinating. At a Monty demo last year Kelly worked with another clipper shy horse using similar techniques and despite the music etc she just wasn't making progress. You could touch him all over with your hands, plastic bags, etc, but the clippers drove him crazy. You could see her really having to think about what else she had at her disposal and she eventually hit on holding the clippers against her shoulder and stroking the horse (so that he could feel the vibrations very mildly). Once that was ok, she held the clippers against her upper arm, then her elbow, then her forearm, wrist, back of her hand and finally on the horse.

It all depends what the real problem is. Some horses have had a bad experience (been burnt or cut by clippers), some hate the noise, some hate the vibration. And you need to figure out which it is and then find a way around it. You can't always use the same formula on every horse and it's all about finding the solution that works for the horse you've got in front of you.

Also, as has been kindly pointed out, in order the maintain the integrity of her work, Kelly does not see any of the horses before they arrive on demo day and she has to choose her demo horses from the selection on offer.

Kelly does usually stress safety and always advocates hard hats, gloves and good footwear. I know she mentioned it in Johannesburg, but perhaps did not stress it enough in Cape Town. I also need to put up my hand and accept some blame here though - during the break I was asked to discuss it with Kelly and ask her to emphasise safety precautions, but I didn't have a chance to relay the message, so for what it's worth, I apologise for that.

However, I can't quite understand what exactly people found cruel or dangerous? Everything Stalin did, he offered voluntarily - Kelly never hauled him or hit him over the tarpaulin and ditto with the clippers. She may have been insistent about what she was asking, but she was certainly never forceful with him (Stalin may not have been a great big Warmblood, but even at his size he outweighed and out-muscled Kelly considerably!).

He always had the choice to plant or rear or run in the opposite direction, but he never did. Instead, despite his very obvious misgivings, he chose to trust her and try what she asked. You could almost see the thought process written across his little face as he tried to psych himself up to jump the tarp - he was like that story about the little train trying to get up the hill - I think I can, I think I can !

He was also never aggressive towards her in any way. He was tense and spooky, but definitely not 'wild'. As Monty says 'Wild means go away' - a truly frightened wild animal cannot and will not choose to stay in close proximity to what it perceives to be a threat. In fact, Stalin Joined-Up so strongly it was quite difficult for her to get any distance between them so that she could do some of the other work.

He did get closer to her than one would normally allow (again, he was an exceptional case and Kelly was making allowances for that), but despite getting close, he had nice enough manners never to barge into her. Even when Kelly asked the audience to clap and he rushed to her for security (again, showing that she was his safety zone, rather than someone who had traumatised him), he ran to her - not THROUGH her.

Half the difficulty for that pony (well, as I see it anyway) is that because of the way he'd been brought up (on his own in Namibia with wild antelope apparently) his flight response is much stronger than a 'normal' domestic horse. Also, it didn't look as though he had been desensitised to very much which is why he was so sensitive to everything ! No wonder the poor thing was a stressball that saw dragons around every corner !

Anyway, some people found the starter was too ploddy, but then thought Stalin was too reactive. We know we can't please everyone, but we try and show a good cross section of horses and problems and a few different problem-solving approaches.

I think it is also very important to stress the fact that this is a DEMO - it's an artificial environment for both the horse and Kelly and the crowd and indoor venue do magnify things - if they didn't, it would be a very difficult environment to teach in. The point is that the principles used during the demo remain the same when you try them at home. Gain your horse's trust, then start giving him small challenges and build it up from there.

I know a few people did go home and put their horses over tarps and were disappointed when it was no big deal. However, this is exactly what you'd expect in a nice, normal, well-rounded individual who's been sensibly brought up and seen a bit of life. Which is why that is not the sort of horse we used in the demo ! If we'd tried to demonstrate desensitisation methods on the starter for example, it would have made for a very boring demo indeed !!

But it's all good. It's a different audience to what Kelly is used to in the UK and feedback is very important in order to work out how to address the South African level of knowledge appropriately.

[♥*`~Ana~`* ♥]

I really really want to go, sounds amazing! Especially what you've been saying zsuzsanna04.

[saxon]

I went with my rather jaded and traditional instructor and we both enjoyed it.

Hey, anyone who can make my instructor cry is right up there with God!

[anine]

saxon: aaaack! I thought I was the only one who went all teary-eyed *blush*
but these things always make me cry